KAWAMORI

Welcome, everyone! I’m Shoji Kawamori, and today, we have the pleasure of welcoming another fantastic guest. We’ll be chatting about the wonder of life, the art of performance, and naturally, we’ll delve into the Expo as well.

KAJI

Hello everyone. My name is Yuki Kaji, and I’m a voice actor. Thank you for having me.

KAWAMORI

It’s been quite a while. If I remember correctly, the last time we saw each other was when I asked for your help with my 40th-anniversary exhibition, the Kawamori EXPO.
I really appreciate all the help you gave me back then.

KAJI

The pleasure was all mine. I had a look at the image boards on the official Osaka Expo website, and they’re fantastic! They’re so distinctly you. I know the pavilion is still under construction, but I can already sense it’s going to be extraordinary. I can’t wait to experience it firsthand. I’m sure it’ll be incredibly moving and inspiring.

KAWAMORI

That’s wonderful to hear!

KAJI

I’m very excited about it!

KAWAMORI

Has it really been five years already? I was so crazy about World Expos that I even called my 40th-anniversary exhibition Kawamori EXPO. Never in my wildest dreams did I think I’d actually get to be a part of one.

What about you? Have you been to many World Expos?

KAJI

I haven’t had the opportunity to attend one in person. The first one that pops into my head is the Osaka Expo, which happened before I was even born. I’ve only seen it in documentaries and movies, so it feels more like something from the history books. I do have fond memories of the Aichi Expo in Nagoya, though. The mascots, Morizo and Kiccoro, were so cute! And even though it was abroad, the recent Dubai Expo was visually striking.

But generally speaking, my experience with Expos is mostly secondhand; I haven’t had many chances to actually visit one.

KAWAMORI

Back during the first Osaka Expo, information was scarce; it was a time when you really had to be there in person to experience anything. That sense of firsthand experience was incredibly powerful. Figuring out how to convey that same sense of experience to people today requires a lot of creativity. Back then, Japan didn’t even have theme parks, only small amusement parks. So the Expo had to be just as exciting, if not more so, while also holding significance as a World Expo. That’s a lot to consider.

KAJI

I couldn’t agree more. The ability to “experience” and “connect” with something firsthand is incredibly valuable. Especially in the early days of the pandemic, connecting with people became so challenging. Whether it was through live readings or events, we lost the ability to share a physical space in real-time for a long time. But then, online streaming and communication stepped in, and we discovered many new conveniences. For those living far away, it saves both time and money on travel. And with archived streams, you can enjoy the content even if you can’t make it to the live event.

But at the same time, I realized that there’s a unique kind of excitement and inspiration that you can only experience by being there in person. That’s why, even with all the information available online, I feel a strong urge to actually go and see it for myself.

KAWAMORI

As a voice actor, you typically interact with the audience through a screen, whereas in stage readings, it’s a direct connection. I’m curious to hear about the differences from your perspective as a performer. Perhaps the contrast in the overall experience?

KAJI

Indeed. The term “actor” encompasses a wide range of performers, from those in film to those on stage. And even within stage acting, there are further distinctions, like musicals and operas. Voice actors typically work in recording studios, where there’s no live audience. So getting immediate feedback from viewers is out of the question. But in a live setting, like a stage reading, having the audience right there in front of you is incredibly impactful. Of course, the world of the story is meticulously built within the script, and voice actors serve as a vital part of bringing that world to life, expanding it tenfold, even a hundredfold. In that sense, using our voices and words to create a heart-to-heart connection is similar in both voice acting and stage readings. But when you have a live audience sharing the same space, the atmosphere is undeniably different. If there’s a funny line, you hear laughter; during a moving scene, you might hear sobs or sniffles. The applause at the end of a performance truly drives home the fact that a stage production is a collaborative effort, involving not just the staff and cast, but everyone present in the theater.

KAWAMORI

Speaking of performing and voice acting, you participated in the stage play for Nobunaga the Fool, didn’t you?

KAJI

Yes, I did. That was quite an unforgettable experience! (laughs)

KAWAMORI

It was a bit of an unusual experiment, wasn’t it? How was it for you? I imagine it was challenging.

KAJI

It was a lot of fun. It was an unprecedented project where voice actors, in a style similar to a stage reading, but also half like anime, provided voices for the same roles being performed live by stage actors right in front of us. I genuinely believe there’s been nothing else quite like it, and there probably never will be again! (laughs)

KAWAMORI

It was something else entirely, and I doubt we’ll see anything like it again anytime soon.

KAJI

It was a bold experiment, very much your style. For me, it was a truly unique experience (laughs), and I found it incredibly fascinating. Typically, as voice actors, we create the performance in our heads and express it through sound, whether it’s for anime or dubbing. Even when there’s an actor on screen, we have no direct, real-time influence on their performance. But this project was different. It was about providing live voices for a live stage performance! Like we talked about earlier, every performance was unique. In each moment, there was this incredible energy between us actors, all playing the same role, feeding off each other and constantly asking ourselves, “How am I feeling? How should I move? How do we make this entertaining?” It’s totally unpredictable, a true live experience. Plus, you have to interact with the other actors on stage in real-time. The number of things you need to be mindful of increases exponentially… it’s not just double, it’s more like squared, cubed, maybe even to the fourth power! (laughs)

KAWAMORI

Exactly. It’s like having double the number of people involved.

KAJI

We were doing some pretty intricate stuff, weren’t we? (laughs)

KAWAMORI

You know, it wasn’t until we actually started working on this project that it really hit us: even in regular animation, multiple people are involved in bringing a single character to life – the artist who draws them, and the voice actor who gives them a voice. But we’re so used to that, we don’t even think about it anymore. With this live-action element, though, it was like we were seeing two different versions of the same character at the same time. That was really intriguing! And having a bit of a background in psychology, it made me think about how even a single person can have multiple facets to their personality. I felt like we were tapping into something really profound there.

KAJI

Yeah, I think you’re onto something there. I played Hideyoshi, and seeing another actor portray him live definitely gave me a fresh perspective on the character. It made me think about how this kind of experience could offer deeper insights into a role. If I remember correctly, that stage performance was more like a grand finale, happening after the anime had already aired. But imagine if we’d done it before the voice recording even began! It could’ve been a chance to explore the characters in a whole new way, adding another layer of depth to our performances.

KAWAMORI

Well, I can share this now since it’s been some time, but back then, the stage actors were a bit skeptical. They were like, “Why can’t we do the voices too?” and the director was wondering how it would all work out. But after they actually saw and heard you guys perform, they were blown away. They were genuinely impressed, like, ‘Wow, these voice actors are amazing!’ It was really something.

KAJI

Wow, that’s great to hear. But at the same time, I feel like we have to impress them. It’s like, each to their own specialty, right? Of course, the same goes for us voice actors. Physical performance is not something we usually do. I’ve recently been in musicals and stage plays, and I’ve really come to understand that challenge firsthand. In fact, in a 2023 production… well, I was in my late 30s at the time, and it was my first time ever attempting serious sword fighting on stage. I hadn’t been training for years or anything, and I didn’t have any experience with action acting. On top of that, the other main cast members, including the actor who shared the same role with me, were all about 10 years younger than me, and they were all action pros, the best of the best. Being thrown into that situation… the entire run was a real struggle, from start to finish. But luckily, my character wasn’t supposed to be this super strong, super cool type. He was more of an ordinary guy surrounded by incredibly talented and powerful individuals, someone who tries incredibly hard, and whose effort inspires others to help him. So, in a way, my lack of experience actually worked in my favor, as it resonated with the character (laughs). Ultimately, what I’m trying to say is that by actually doing physical acting, something I don’t usually do, my understanding of expression unique to voice acting changed. Normally, you’d think that voice-only acting, being literally just your voice, has a lot of limitations. But I realized there’s also a certain freedom that comes with those limitations. Of course, even on stage, costumes and makeup can change the visual impression, and in film, various technologies, including CG, can help. But precisely because it’s a world of just voices, I became convinced that as long as you have the imagination within yourself, and the imagination of the listeners, you can easily transcend common sense. That experience was eye-opening. I’m not particularly big or muscular, but in the world of voice acting, through changes in vocal quality and acting skills, I can even play a character who’s the strongest in the world!

KAWAMORI

Definitely, definitely. That’s an interesting perspective.

KAJI

With just your imagination and a microphone, the possibilities are endless. It’s interesting how encountering the limitations of the stage actually made me appreciate the freedom of voice acting even more.

KAWAMORI

Absolutely. It’s fascinating how the voice can transcend physical limitations. I suppose your experience with stage readings plays a part, but even before books and written language, stories were passed down orally by storytellers. In those times, the storyteller’s voice, their ability to narrate and create worlds, must have held tremendous power. And I believe that power is still being passed down today.

KAJI

Perhaps. I’d be honored if I could fulfill such a role through my own performances. And not just to adults, but to help pass on that same sense of wonder to children as well.

KAWAMORI

Indeed.

KAJI

About the pavilion you’re currently creating… For people of my generation who might not be familiar with World Expos, or for fans of your work and anime, what aspects of the pavilion do you think will resonate with them?

KAWAMORI

For my pavilion, we’re centering on the ecosystem and the journey of life, exploring how living beings and life itself cycle and evolve. That’s why I’ve deliberately left out mecha.

KAJI

Wow! No mecha, even though they’re your trademark!

KAWAMORI

Yes, no mecha, deliberately. It’s like what we discussed earlier – sometimes, constraints can actually lead to greater freedom. By choosing not to use mecha, I’ve been able to create something much more expansive and open. It’s almost like I have complete freedom to express the idea of transcending time and space.

KAJI

I see. So, in the past, mecha naturally found their way into your work because there were no rules against using them. But this time, by intentionally setting a limitation, you’ve actually given birth to something entirely new. That definitely connects with what I was saying earlier.

KAWAMORI

Exactly. On the contrary, if I used mecha, I could easily portray intense action and all that, but I wanted to challenge myself to see if I could express something truly spectacular and dynamic using only the interconnectedness of life. At first, I was thinking of using a dome theater, but the budget was way out of reach. Plus, I’ve been to a few dome theaters myself, and they just weren’t up to the task of expressing what I had in mind. It wasn’t about their technical limitations; they just weren’t the right medium for this. There’s also the option of VR goggles, but if you use those, the experience becomes too isolated. People might start thinking, ‘Why even bother going to the Expo?

KAJI

In theory, you could even do it at home.

KAWAMORI

Exactly. But then it hit me: what if we used cutting-edge tech, like a camera through system that combines real-world footage with VR? We could create an experience where you embark on a journey of life alongside the people around you. That’s the concept we’re developing now. So, it’s like you get to experience it all, even the audience interaction we were discussing earlier.

KAJI

The lines between reality and virtual reality blur, including the other visitors who are right there with you.

KAWAMORI

They do. It’s about shifting back and forth between those two realities… It’s hard to put into words, but it’s not exactly like the world of Mugen Punch, but…

KAJI

That’s amazing! (laughs)

KAWAMORI

It’s kind of like Mugen Punch! The goal is to create a world where you can transcend space and time, and just feel… incredible.

KAJI

Wow! So Aquarion is in there too! (laughs) That sounds incredibly fun. I’m definitely going. I want to experience it for myself.

KAWAMORI

I’d really love for you to come check it out, Kaji, even if it’s just during the testing phase. And I hope you’ll bring your fans along too. The more people who get to experience it, the better!

KAJI

I hope more and more people get to experience this pavilion and spread the word about how amazing it is!

KAWAMORI

I think it’s the same with stage plays and other things. People might hesitate to try something new until they actually see it for themselves, even if they’re not necessarily prejudiced against it.

KAJI

I agree. When something’s unfamiliar, it can feel a bit intimidating or inaccessible. Sure, the level of excitement you get from something you can experience at home with a single touch is different from something you have to physically go somewhere to experience. But even then, I think there’s a pretty high hurdle to overcome when it comes to something that’s unfamiliar, even if it sparks your interest, and something you can only truly grasp by being there in person.

KAWAMORI

You’re absolutely right. I used to watch musicals and stuff overseas, but now that I think about it, the first time I ever saw a stage play in Japan was actually during the Tsukuba Expo, when Hideki Noda’s Yume no Yuminsha troupe came. That was my first taste, and I’ve been completely hooked ever since. In that sense, I’m trying to create something that you simply can’t grasp unless you experience it for yourself. It’s a completely new kind of visual medium. Sure, there are places like VS Park that use VR, but I’ve never seen anything that combines VR and XR and tackles a theme like this. You really have to come and experience it firsthand to truly understand it.

KAJI

Some things just can’t be explained, you know? I can’t wait to go check it out for myself! (laughs)

KAWAMORI

Thank you.

KAJI

To everyone watching, if you haven’t already checked it out, be sure to visit the official website. You’ll definitely want to go after seeing it!

On a personal note, 2024 marks my 20th anniversary as a voice actor which is a big milestone for me. Being invited to this conversation at this particular time feels like a special connection. In fact, when I first started out, the original Genesis of Aquarion had just begun airing. I remember thinking, “I’d love to be in a show like that someday.” And then, years later, I got to be a part of Aquarion Evol. I’m still so grateful for the chance to have worked with you on that.

KAWAMORI

Thank you very much.

KAJI

It’s not just your work, but your stories, the way you think… it’s like, “What’s going on in this guy’s brain?!” (laughs). I absolutely love that unique energy you have. I’m sure it’s all over this pavilion too. I can’t wait to visit and just shout, “This is awesome!” like Amata Sora from Aquarion Evol! (laughs)

KAWAMORI

Please do!

KAJI

Seeing the concept designs, I’m once again blown away by your imagination. The challenge you mentioned, of deliberately stepping away from mecha and robots to explore what else is possible, is truly exciting. I can’t wait to experience that analog, real world firsthand. Information is important, of course, but the Expo is a unique chance to share the experience of seeing, touching, and learning firsthand with people not just in Japan, but all over the world. I hope to be a part of that… a link in that growing chain of connection. Thank you so much for having me today.

KAWAMORI

Thank you. It’s been great catching up with you after so long. I’ve been following your incredible career, and your stories were captivating. I’d love to have you back on the show sometime if you’re up for it.

KAJI

Absolutely! The pleasure would be all mine!